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October 2011 |
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"There are exceptions to the establishment clause rulings, but I don't know where our logo falls. There are historical precedents which the Supreme Court has cited to permit what would otherwise be an impermissible use of religious symbols. Most of them come in the context of Christmas creches and such things that are primarily related to the Christian religions." Asked Councilmember Roden, "What about the Christmas tree that we put up in the Council Chambers every year? Do you have a concern about that?" Replied Attorney Norton, "If you establish it as a religious symbol, then that's a problem. The current logo goes back many, many years. Even though I have legal concerns about it, there may be authority that what you decide could support a challenge. The easiest way to address that is remove any religious symbols from any public space." "Then I want to look at everything!" state Councilmember Roden. "I want to look at our Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony. When we have no complaints, when we have a historical reference, if we're going to do that kind of research, then let's do it all! If that's how the Council wants to do it, then let's be very pro-active and defensive. In my opinion, we're opening up a huge bunch of things that aren't required." "I agree," said Councilmember Crowley. "If we have 10,000 concerns, this is the 10,000th or beyond." "I agree," said Mayor Thun. "I absolutely agree. I have had people question me about the logo, I've said to them that I have bigger battles to fight, but I have a personal concern so I'll vote no on this." Continued the mayor, "This issue came up with Mike [city attorney] because I had an article from the State of California saying it had been ruled unconstitutional. I googled it and I guess you have to be a law clerk to find things like that." Commented Councilmember Crowley, "I'm glad you said that was California. That's puts it into context. Now I understand." "Now I understand, too," said Councilmember Roden. "It certainly wouldn't be the case for Minnesota," said Councilmember O'Connor. With the 3-1 vote, Councilmember Roden asked, "Can we not talk about this for the rest of the year, please? And maybe next year, too? That would be my request, unless there's some new information." Added Councilmember Crowley, "I want a high resolution of the copy of the logo because I want a T-shirt."
SIGNS, SUBSIDIES, SAFETY, SPLIT VOTES DISAGREEMENT ON VICTORIA COUNCIL On September 12th Council discussed a community sign, originally brought up this spring by Victoria businesses wishing to keep Highway 5 traffic headed into the downtown business district rather than making a south turn on Bavaria Road as people are coming home from work, for example. It came to be called a Community Sign because it could advertise community events as well as business occasions. Holly Kreft, Victoria's Community Development Director, reported Setpember 12th that a double sided sign would cost between $45,000 and $50,000. She reported that staff reviewed multiple alternate locations and that five appear to be viable considerations for a Community Sign. Holly also presented a sketch for the renovation and enlargement of the current Welcome to Victoria Sign that would incorporate a digital electronic message. Stated Councilmember Jim Crowley, "I'm concerned from a budgetary standpoint." "We looked at this a month ago," said Councilmember Tom O'Connor. "In my mind, it was an issue of effectiveness and safety. I don't know why we're talking about it again." He suggested that the city would need four or five such signs scattered throughout the city to serve such a purpose. Councilmember Kim Roden had also questioned why Council was talking again about something already voted on. She clarified that the motion in August was to look at the existing monument sign with the possibility of retrofitting it to become more of a Community Sign. "Why are we getting a whole bunch of other stuff tonight?" she asked. "Why all of these additional sign proposals at different locations? If we multiply $50,000 times five signs, we're talking a quarter of a million dollars." Replied Holly, "A community sign was discussed by the Business Development Committee, not because it was the direction of the Council but because they've been involved in the marketing part of it. The BDC recommended a more holistic approach and that the [Welcome to Victoria] location may not be the ideal location, and that other locations be considered. And that's why this analysis was done for five sites."
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